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hillary clinton 
28th-Mar-2008 02:04 pm


I don't know why I'm so into following the American election this year. I can't even vote in it. Well I used to study political science so I have an interest in these things.

If you've been reading my journal you know that I'm a big fan of Obama. Integrity, intelligence empathy etc. For me he is a very obvious choice...

What I wanted to write was that I've been looking around on political blogs and forums and I'm noticing that most of the comments that speak for Clinton are the idiot kind. You know what I mean...all in caps and one hundred exclamation marks. These people contribute to my conviction that Clinton is a bad choice.

So I was wondering if any of you Clinton supporters out there would like to reply here and tell me why you think she's the one. I'm guessing I will end up disagreeing with you on this, but still I refuse to believe that all the support behind Clinton is the idiot kind. I would love to see some reason :P
Comments 
28th-Mar-2008 01:16 pm (UTC)
If only half of the country actually paid as much attention to our country's government/politics as you...... heh

My boyfriend and I have had discussions about Clinton vs. Obama.
I really don't think Clinton should be the next president. While both of the candidates would be a decent-sized step for the US, I believe a female president in office is a much, much larger step for the country; race shouldn't even matter. But I don't think Clinton is the right woman to be the first. There will be so much pressure on her, and if there is one slip up, the country will just use that as "proof" to form the generalization that women don't belong in office. It would take such a long time for people to vote a woman in again. Not to mention the fact that I would just rather see Obama as the president than Clinton.
28th-Mar-2008 01:33 pm (UTC)
Well it's like that in most countries I guess, not just yours.

Why does your boyfriend want Hillary though. Just because she is a woman? It's not like you can flaunt her to the world saying how good an example you are setting. A whole bunch of countries were getting female leaders a long time ago. And those female leaders were just as capable of being terrible. Just look at Maggie Tatcher (sp?) :P
28th-Mar-2008 02:42 pm (UTC)
But don't you love Clinton's soulful apology for blantantly lying about her "war experience"? Trying to look like one of the cool kids, then revealed as poor liar - Clinton's apology consisted of a pinched, angry, pissed-off expression while snapping out lines like "We all make mistakes and it proves I'm human which comes as a surprise to some people" Humans tend to exhibit human feelings (like "penitence") when apologizing for a lie - not snarl at nameless enemies for somehow making it happen to her. That's how Britney Spears started: she dropped her baby to the ground, then snarled at anyone in the vicinity: "This is why I need a gun."
28th-Mar-2008 02:54 pm (UTC)
I really wonder how that whole thing happened. I still find it hard to believe that she actually would go so low as to completely fabricate stuff like that.

But then again, being under fire is hardly the sort of thing you mix up and confuse right? That stuff you remember :P
28th-Mar-2008 03:13 pm (UTC)
She got it mixed up with that Country Club Soiree where her helicopter was pelted with heavy golf balls so that it couldn't land. Her life was in danger, and she did it for LADY LIBERTY - that's every one of you - but not the darkies
28th-Mar-2008 04:11 pm (UTC)
Yeah :P
28th-Mar-2008 04:13 pm (UTC)
Well yeah she is better than McCain. Did you vote in the nominations?
28th-Mar-2008 03:41 pm (UTC)


that's one reason why you shouldn't vote for her. hahaha.
(i'm totally kidding)
28th-Mar-2008 04:14 pm (UTC)
ouch!

well like i said, i can't really vote for anyone...
28th-Mar-2008 04:34 pm (UTC)
i'm an american who has lived part of my life in europe - czech republic - and part of my life in florida. in fact one of the reasons i flew to the states early was to vote for hillary...and to finish my degree at an american university :)

i guess everyone is going to vote on the issues they feel strongest about. a big issue for me is health care. my frenchies in prague always raved about the system you have there. and from what i've heard and read it is, in fact, a pretty decent system that provides health care to everyone. hill has been fighting for universal health care since her husband was in office - and nearly got lynched in the process. in the czech republic we have a socialized system and it works just fine. of course in america we're terrified of the word socialized so we call it "universal." what i love about her is that she already has a clear plan, like most of the issues, for tearing out the old system and installing a totally new one - a socialized medical system.

obama, to me, just seems like the great black preacher man who is fabulous at giving speeches - but when you really listen and break them down - don't say much at all. they sound good though. his plan on health care is to revamp the terribly broken system we already have. i don't like this idea at all. no one my age has health insurance. it's a scary place to be in...just hope you don't break your arm or something because you might have to spend 7 years paying for it.

i could go and on here but another issue i feel strongly about is equal civil rights for gays. again, hillary has a clear plan for institutionalizing same sex partnership on the federal level. obama throws the "our gay brothers and sisters" rhetoric around. but what is he really saying? not much.

integrity, "change we can believe in", all that jazzy stuff doesn't mean much to me. tell me how you feel about it and then what you will do about it if you win. hillary does this in my opinion.

alas, i live in florida so my delegates weren't even seated. check me out bitching on the local yocal news about it. i just signed a petition, as everyon in michigan and florida should - to let our votes count. i really hope they let us re-vote.

gaying up the south-

28th-Mar-2008 05:20 pm (UTC)
yeah the american health care system is sortof the horror story people here to describe how much worse it could have been for us (people still complain of course).

i see what you mean about the great black preacher thing, but it is really not the "hope halleluka" that makes me like this man. when he speaks i really do get the impression that he is a reflected man who has thought these things through and understands them. yeah sure he has a great smile and charisma, but i don't think i'm "under a spell" when i say this.

you can find his health care plan here : http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/ (yeah i'm sure you could have figured it out yourself, but there you have it anyway)

i have been looking at both their plans for this, and while like you say they are not the same...they are sorta the same :P i think you know what i mean. what makes him stand out here for me is how he is really going after the "big bad industries" connected to health care, insurance and pharmaceutical (sp?) industries. i don't think hillary clinton will be able to take that political power away from them. i'm not sure she will even try!

as for the gay rights, yeah he should grow some balls i guess. there are some other things i disagree with him as well. do you really think clinton will fight that hard for the gays though?

yeah i heard about florida and michigan. it seemed to me like there was nothing political about it though? just terrible execution, no?
you're wrong - Anonymous Expand
listen you - Anonymous Expand
28th-Mar-2008 04:42 pm (UTC) - i dont know what blogs youre reading, but...
I'm a reasoning, well-educated person, and I support her. I would also add that she won New York, Massachusetts, California, and is poised to win Pennsylvania. Anywhere that people actually live, she wins. Anywhere there are blue-collar workers and union members, she wins. Barack wins where people ride horses and fear solar eclipses.

That said, there are a myriad of reasons why I support her. First, Hillary has made healthcare the cause of her life. It is only because of her chiding that Obama champions some form of healthcare reform. Hillary believes that access to healthcare is a universal right of man, like voting and trials. That inspires me. Her vision of a better, fairer world inspires me.

Secondly, Hillary would get us out of Iraq. I know that sounds like something Barack says too, but he has no plan, and he changes his answer depending on who asks the question. Hillary has been firm on setting a 60-day window for commanders to pick who will leave and when, and after that period, they come home until they're all gone from Iraq. Hillary would also send the contractors home, something that Barack opposes. We can't use Blackwater to fight the war just because we aren't using soldiers anymore.

There are many more reasons for me personally, but I don't know how much will fit in this window.
28th-Mar-2008 05:32 pm (UTC) - Re: i dont know what blogs youre reading, but...
Well I'm not so sure about that first paragraph. It's not the kind of thing you should write to make you take you seriously...

I don't think she invented the idea of health care reforms. All the democratic candidates had this as an issue. It is something that belongs to the party more than something that belongs to her I think.

As for the war in Iraq...I don't really know what to feel about this. I can't say I am more sad to hear that American soldiers are killed there than all the civilians there who are dying. The US invaded Iraq, ignoring what the rest of the world said, and now Bush has made a mess down there. I do know that Hillary Clinton was one of the people who voted for the invasion, and Obama didn't. I don't think much about wether they use one or two or three years to get out of there. They will leave a mess in any case.
28th-Mar-2008 05:12 pm (UTC)
As a Californian, I'll just point out that it was *exceptionally* close. He actually won more territory, and did especially well where the population had a higher level of education.


Anyhow, no secret that I'm an Obama fan, and that I have a great amount of dislike for both Clintons.

But out of respect for the spirit of this thread ("who is voting for Hillary and why"), I'll keep my peace while other folk have their say. :)
28th-Mar-2008 05:35 pm (UTC)
One thing that I have really enjoyed is discovering more and more people I have great respect for support this man. I know it is not something to base a decision on, but it really shows to me that he is more than a rock star politician.
28th-Mar-2008 05:56 pm (UTC)
I respect Hillary. IF she does win the nomination, I will vote for her, but that will be the first vote she will get from me. I think she is entrenched so deep into "politics as usual" that nothing of substance will actually change if she is elected. Obama has gotten my support because he is running on changing the "good-ole-boy" network. He has a way of getting ENOUGH people excited enough to actually demand change at a grassroots level...I don't get that sense from Hillary.

28th-Mar-2008 06:13 pm (UTC)
Well this is the nominations. When you bring McCain in their differences sortof pale :P
28th-Mar-2008 07:31 pm (UTC)
Hillary cannot win. Her negative's are very high and the American people just don't like her. It's not personal, well, maybe it is. O'Bama has some serious problems with his pastor. Americans will have a hard time voting for someone whose pastor preaches sermons with the words "G D America". I have not formulated an opinion yet, however, I am a journalist and these are obvious problems. O'Bama needs to do some more work on this issue. I think he is still very much electable.
28th-Mar-2008 10:12 pm (UTC)
I heard all Norwegians are Americanophiles anyway cos apparently all Norwegians hate Norway and love America and wish they were American.

SAY IT AIN'T SO!


Hey Clinton supporters aren't all stupid, a lot of the ones I know are highly intelligent and have made personal decisions on why they support her.

Incidentally I went down South to my home town last weekend and my friend told me Obama wants to "Bomb Pakistan". What,the,fuck. :|

Anyway I'm British so I don't know too much about the American elections/or indeed care. I'm far too Eurocentric to give a fuck about America. I realise it's the most powerful nation on earth but whatevs, Britain ueber alles for me.
28th-Mar-2008 10:14 pm (UTC)
It ain't so haha.

They certainly don't want to be British either though ;)
29th-Mar-2008 06:20 am (UTC) - Part 1
Oh, hi! I just added you yesterday, and, well, I do happen to be a Clinton supporter, so I suppose I should pipe up now.

While I admit I capslock rage at times, it's usually because the media and the world seems universally to support Obama and they never give me a good reason why. All I ever hear about is change, but what exactly he wants to change or what he thinks needs to change is always muddled behind the rhetoric. I would say, of all the blogs I read, it's the Obama supporters that have their caps lock on full time and don't add anything constructive to the table.

They always point out how he never supported the war in Iraq while conveniently forgetting that the incumbent he replaced did and that it's likely he would have voted for it, too, just like Clinton did when she was in the Senate when the vote took place (while he was not.) And Clinton can't be faulted for that when you look at the American people and what they wanted and especially considering Clinton is a New York senator and represented what New Yorkers wanted, which is not too difficult to believe that it was an invasion in Iraq. Why? Because the country was fooled by a very crafty administration at the time. The 9/11 attacks were used as the sole fuel for the fire of the war in Iraq even if technically the threat of weapons was what allowed Congress to rationalise going. The truth is, Clinton didn't want war, but America did. I'm glad that sentiment has completely changed now and Americans are realising how horrible the war is.

Does that mean they'll learn? Perhaps, perhaps not. Obama supports taking the troops out of Iraq and sending them straight to Pakistan. Doesn't exactly sound like "change" to me. Sounds instead like he just wants to say what people want to hear. No one realises he'd probably have done the same thing Bush did in Afghanistan, and who knows if he wouldn't have invaded Iraq as well. Obama himself said he wouldn't know what he would have done if he, like Clinton, had been in the senate at the time of the vote, but he obviously leads people to believe he wouldn't have voted and his rhetoric is always that he didn't vote, which is simply a lie because he couldn't have voted either way.

I live in Utah which is a conservative state. Very conservative. Now, it's not my choice to live here, but I'm here for the time being anyway. Mormons abound, if you've ever met one of those. They absolutely hate the Clintons, Hillary more than Bill. And for no reason other than she has a high pitched voice. I have actually heard numerous people say that they couldn't stand her being president because they don't want to listen to her voice for the next 4-8 years. But this is all beside the point. The funny thing is that Mormons and Utahans were supporting the republican candidate Mitt Romney almost universally. When he pulled out of the race to support McCain (probably in an effort to get McCain's nod for vice president, which is about as smart a move as he could play) most of the younger generation, my age, turned to supporting Obama instead. WHY? That is caps lock for you ... WHY?

It makes absolutely no sense. There couldn't be two candidates who were more different politically than Mitt Romney and Barack Obama. They believe in completely opposite things! And none of them can give me a good reason they support him either. The only reason they support him is because he is a charismatic smooth talking rock star. He can charm the pants off just about anyone. He knows what to say and when to say it. He delivers brilliant speeches. They (the younger Utahans) have all been fooled into supporting him fully even though they don't realise they don't agree with any of his political ideals. And they continue to think Clinton is a bad choice without knowing anything about her political ideals either.
29th-Mar-2008 06:21 am (UTC) - Part 2
Now, I don't mean to hate on Obama. When it comes to it, I believe I'll end up supporting him if he gets the democratic vote, although it's painful for me to say it. To me, he is full of lies, deceit and false rhetoric. Every politician has a forked tongue, and I admit, Clinton is no different. Clinton should be good at it - she has a mass of experience from having a hand in the administration during her husband's eight years in office. Those eight years cannot be brushed aside (as Obama supporters always suggest) because she clearly had a role in policy making. Ten years ago, people used to joke that it was really Hillary running the white house, not Bill. Now they forget that joke and pretend she actually has the same amount of experience as Obama.

But the small differences between her and Obama are what really sell me, not "experience" and "change" or honesty. On the issues, Clinton's record shews she care about the LGBT community. That's just one of the chief issues I care about. She and Obama both say they support the LGBT community, but where Clinton has top advisers who are a part of the community, Obama hires people to sing at his rallies who are clearly against the community. I wonder what his own "ex-pastor" would say about the issue (I put it in quotation marks because 20 years of faithful church service is only put aside after the media finally caught on and called him out on his church's bigotted ideals.) Clinton and Obama both say they will get rid of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" but I know Clinton will and just hope Obama would. Obama doesn't even believe in the same class of marriage for any consenting adult in the same capacity Clinton does.

Aside from LGBT issues Clinton supports a health care plan that will affect me - a poor university student. Obama's does not. His only reaches out to the people who can't already afford their own health insurance, and then, it doesn't even cover all of them (like me.) Clinton's plan really is universal, which is what I want. Speaking of students, Clinton has repeatedly presented plans to support cheaper education in the states, providing higher education to anyone who wants it via more grants and loans that are easier to pay back and easier to get even if one's parents happen to be rich (like mine, though they don't support me anyway.) Without lowering the quality of education, she wants to be able to pay teachers more.

And where is all this money coming from? It's no secret Clinton doesn't say she's going to do major tax cuts, but who says she should? Taxes can only be cut so much. Instead, she wants to reduce the number of tax cuts the richest 20% of the population enjoy, in essence making them pay more taxes than they are already without over taxing them which is what Obama would do (while cutting taxes for the poorest 20-40% significantly.) Now it might seem obvious that I would want my own taxes to be cut, but I'm not an idiot when it comes to capitalism and what works, and I just don't think Obama's plan for taxes is good enough to replace the $80 billion he plans on cutting, especially when the things he wants to do (military AND health care) are going to end up costing even more money.

And I really could go on and on, but I've already spent a good half hour writing this, and all you want is to know that there are Clinton supporters who aren't idiots? Well, it's nice for me to find Obama supporters who aren't idiots, too. Especially when Clinton and Obama both support similar things and should have many of the same ideals, why has the democratic party become so split? Of course, you won't see me changing over to the Obama camp any time soon. Age and experience win it for me.
30th-Mar-2008 04:52 am (UTC)
Okay yea have to break this up to three posts, apparently there is a 4600 character limit in posts.

On the subject of Florida and Michigan, I can't blame them for wanting to have their voting early. The states that have their caucuses/primaries toward the end of the summer usually never get attention by anyone, the news media, the candidates, etc., because the candidates are usually already chosen before then so no one cares about hearing the voters of those states and their concerns on the issues until come time to campaign for the general election, look how much attention Iowa and New Hampshire got at the beginning of elections, now if they were 4 or 5 months later, they would have gotten no where near the attention that they did. So I think that Florida and Michigan were hoping to get some feedback from the candidates on the issues that concern them most but instead Howard Dean and the DNC didn't want to give them that opportunity.

Also you have all of these people on the Obama side lately calling for Hillary to step down (however Obama does agree that she should stay in as long as she wants, as is her democratic rite), as I recall, not even a year ago people didn't even think Obama had a real fighting chance, that Clinton was without a doubt going to be the Democratic nominee, but you didn't see Clinton supporters back then saying that Obama should just give up and not even bother, to just let her take the spot uncontested, giving her more time and money to campaign for the general election, even Edwards was looking pretty good for awhile, this is no where near over yet you keep hearing people saying that she has no chance, when infact they are scared because they knew she has a good chance of becoming the democratic nominee, both candidates do.
30th-Mar-2008 04:53 am (UTC)

As for healthcare, I agree that Clinton's is a more complete plan. It wasn't too long ago that I was on state insurance but once I got approved for SSD (they think i'm crazy =P), the state cut me off, even though they said they wouldn't if I had gotten approved. So now even in just prescriptions alone I'd be looking at over $500 a month, thankfully my doctor is kind enough to provide me with bags of free samples for some things (Prevacid is expensive shit) and the pharmacist for "courtesy" refills (for four months they gave me double of my ulcer medication, filled the second script one day after the first, when i told them i already had it filled they told me it was courtesy, whatever they mean by that, maybe they had too much in stock and wanted to get rid of it) So yea on the subject of Healthcare, I'd take Clinton's plan over Obama's.

A friend of mine was a big supporter of Obama and wondered why i'd support Hillary (esp. since i'm a bit of a sexist =P). But just a few weeks ago she stopped supporting Obama (although that doesn't mean she wants Clinton to be president either). Her reason was that in '06 Obama said that there is no people suffering greater than the Palestinians but then later decided to give his support to our Israeli "allies", granted I don't know too much about this but we both agree that Israel is a huge aggressor in the Middle East and a bigger threat to the Middle East peace process than lets say Syria or Iran, seeing as how they actively oppress the Palestinians living in Gaza and launched attacks on several Middle East countries in the past few decades. I don't know why he would change his position on the matter but some would think it's for the jewish support in his campaign and if he's president he would have to continue relations with them. I wouldn't use the term flip-flopper (which i fucking hate because of bush designating Kerry a "flip-flopper" even tho i didn't like kerry too much, he's infinitely better than bush; besides he didn't "flip-flop" on the war at all, he voted for the war based on the intel he was given at the time by the bush administration, which was falsified and down right bullshit, sure show "iraqi biological weapons facilities" but just carefully leave out the fact that the bio weapons that sadaam had in the first gulf war had a short half-life and were utterly useless by '03 and all that other crap the bush administration shoveled into congress. i'm sure if you guaranteed congress without any doubt and gave them documented evidence that canada had an army of giant killer teddy bears that they planned on using to invade the north pole and execute santa, congress would have voted to go to war with the giant killer teddy bear makers too-- lol yea it's late-- but yea kerry agreed to go to war based on the bullshit lies that he was told by the administration, but later disagreed with the execution of the war and the war itself after it came out that iraq was no eminent threat to the united states. anywho yea back to the current race yea? sry i tend to go off on tangents a bit, prolly cuz we would also do so to our teachers to end up killing half a class of work, "So Mr. Fedorko, How about them Cubs?" yes so it's not impossible for obama supporters to find fault in him, like i said before, I would gladly support him in 2012 or later but for now i'm for Clinton, or why don't the two just run on the same ticket to stop everyone's bickering, flip a coin to see who's president and the other is vice. (i'm not joking here btw, even tho i think Clinton/Gore '08 sounds damn good) in a recent poll 22% of Democratic voters said they support Clinton/Obama now but would vote for McCain in the general b/c of the current democratic arguing, even though the media doubts it would be anywhere near that number, they say even a 4% would be a huge blow to the Democratic party. But i'm always one for a good argument/debate it's healthy to air out your opinions are burn off some steam (i even put it on my top 10 qualities of an ideal mate for psych class- Stubborn and can argue with me from time to time)
30th-Mar-2008 04:53 am (UTC)


Also how people talk about how each of the Senators have voted on this and that, I personally think that all three Presidential hopefuls should step down for their positions as Senators at least for the time being and should have a year ago, they are constantly on the road campaigning and not doing their elected duties to the peoples of their home states. Their constituents put them in power to speak for them, but the Senators can't do much speaking for them when they are out speaking for themselves in every other state but their own. They are being paid by the tax payers to do a job that they aren't doing sufficiently or just plain not doing at all. If they truly want to be honorable Americans and win votes, they should recognize that at the time, they are in no position to properly represent their voters due to their ongoing campaigning/other duties. I'll send a Fuzzy Friends Political Pez Dispenser to the first one who does. This is actually one point that I have not seen a single person touch upon or ask. I also think that if an elected official misses more than 35% of his days in offices, he should be forced out and that is more than reasonable, not sure what % it is for expulsion in school but I see no difference in doing the same to elected officials, unless of course they have a doctors note with something better than a tummy ache.

To end everything, like other have said, 4, 8+ years down the line Obama would/could have our support. You hear him now about all the things he'd do as president, but how many times do we hear people say what they will do as president and see that do jack shit for their voters (not saying Obama will be this way, but I want to see what he will actually do as senator first before making him president. lets see how he votes on things, lets see if he keeps his promises to his constitutes, lets see if he gets shit done and then lets vote him president, cuz only spending 2 years in senate and then plan on spending the next 2 years of his term campaigning isn't good enough for me, i want to see where he actually stands on things, not where he says he stands, cuz we all know people will say just about anything to get elected, not calling him a liar now, just saying i want him to prove to me at least that he is an honest man before i support him fully, and i did support him when he ran for senate (obviously didn't vote for him since was 16 at the time and not in Illinois) not saying hillary is a saint either, don't know exactly what the whole thing with the bosnia sniper incident, which didn't happen, is about, maybe she honestly remembered things that way, maybe she lied to look better, but unfortunately this is not a Moral World, people lie; and yea i do think that a good part of the reason i support hillary is because i remember the Clinton years as the good years, my memories growing up are fragmented but some i do remember, i remember sitting in the front of the tv watching the votes come in for bill in 92 and 96 and betting on the races too =P . Only time will tell, lets just hope it doesn't lie.
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